Questions on Mike Mentzer's last book

Of course! Why didn't I think of that? I'll try the exercise seated and see how it goes next time. I'm really trying to follow this course as closely as possible. Mike Mentzer put a lot of thought into everything and I'm sure the same goes for his choices of exercises. As I said before I don't want there to be any doubt or excuses when I'm ready to evaluate this approach to bodybuilding.

You know, I don't want to discredit Mike but there's some rumour that he choose the Incline press over any other press just because in the gym he frequented at that time the incline press station was closest to the pec deck (pre-exhaust)...

That said, it sure is good to start any course with the exercises recomended but as you get more experienced you will find the exercises which are "just right" for you personally and stimulate the target muscles the best.

I don't have a calf machine at home so I do calf raises, 1 leg at a time, on the stairs holding a weight. I did a Legs & Abs workout today and I reached the same number of reps as last time with the same weight. However, I improved my squats by 3 reps and my sit-ups by 8.

What do you guys think I should do? I thought of 2 options...

1. Add more rest days in between workouts.

2. Train calves every other Legs & Abs workout.

I don't like the first option too much because I'm progressing with the squats and sit-ups. Since the Legs & Abs workout is repeated in the 4 workout cycle I could give my calves more rest by only hitting them once. What do you guys think? Any other suggestions?

First thing you need to check is how many consecutive workouts has this happened in?

fantombe wrote:First thing you need to check is how many consecutive workouts has this happened in?

Now that I've looked at it more closely it's been 2 workouts where I've been unable to perform more than 12 reps with the same weight with calf raises. I reached the level I'm at on June 23rd and on July 3rd and July 13th I've been unable to go beyond 12 reps. With every other exercise in the 4 workout cycle I've been either forcing out more reps or adding more weight.

I'm thinking maybe I could try some static holds or some negatives next time.

Well first I'd suggest sticking the weight up. You may find a single progression works well for that body part.

Try sticking it up by 2½k or so, and go for 12 again next time.

I finally broke through my 12 rep max on single legged calf raises. I decided to try hitting them every other Legs & Abs day and it worked. I was able to perform 14 reps and I'll up the weight for next time.

On another note, I got stuck in the down position doing squats today. Well, half way up position really. I've read about how dangerous this can be and I've been careful and reasonable about knowing when it's time to rack it... except for today. I train alone at home and I use a half rack which doesn't have any safety catchers. I was feeling really ambitious and I added more weight, as I was supposed to, but when performing the exercise I kept saying to myself "just one more". I ignored that little voice of reason and I ended up stuck half way up. I had no more juice left and I held it there for maybe 3 seconds. Not a fun position to be in. So, I went down as low as I could then kind of pushed the barbell away as I fell back... I survived with no injuries. I just scraped off a thin layer of skin on my pinky. My half rack has a dent and a scratch on its base but it's still good.

I literally trained to failure on this exercise so I hope I get some good growth out of this ordeal. Live and learn. Well, at least I lived

Congratulations on breaking the plateau! Who would have known the answer was to simply... do nothing for a bit.

Wow, glad you survived getting "stuck in the hole" on the squats! Yeah, that can be a truly dangerous situation. Are you in the basement or anything where you would be able to sort of heave the bar off your back without it crashing through the floor? (Kind of sounds like what you did, really, except you managed to hit the rack.)

I'd personally go so far as to say that I wouldn't squat at all unless I was in a squat rack because situations like this just scare me a little too much. You could always try conventional deadlifting instead! Not a bad leg builder either.

Yeah, I train in the basement so there was no damage to the floor or anything else. I've been looking at upgrading my equipment but I want to get closer to its weight limits before making the change which could be by the end of the year. I just have to be more careful until then.

So I've been doing Mike Mentzer's ideal [principled] workout routine for 2 months now. I've gained strength and lost 4.5 pounds of fat counting calories but if I've gained any muscle it's not noticeable. I am aware that the average person can only gain 5 pounds of muscle per year but at the same time you hope that maybe you can have gains like some of his best clients have had, or at least just a fraction.

I can't help but feel like I have to make some changes. A couple of people have told me that they've made better gains with his consolidation workouts.


Workout One

squats (alternate periodically with leg presses) 1 x 12-20 reps
close-grip, palms-up pulldowns 1 x 6-10 reps
dips 1 x 6-10 reps

Workout Two

deadlifts (alternate periodically with shrugs) 1 x 6-10 reps
press behind neck 1 x 6-10 reps
standing calf raises 1 x 12-20 reps


As you can see, these workouts are based on compound exercises. Also, note that the lower and upper body are worked out as Arthur Jones advocated.

If compound exercises can stimulate more muscle growth then why perform them in a weakened state as part of a pre-exhaust routine? Wouldn't it be better use post-exhaust so that you could perform the compound exercises at full strength?

I'm going to make my own routine similar to Mike Mentzer's 2 consolidation workouts. But my workouts will have 1 or 2 more exercises and will be performed with 4 to 5 days rest in between and I'll make sure that the upper and lower body get worked every workout to generate a maximal hormonal response.

Pre-exhaust is one technique used and doesn't have to be followed all life. HIT trainers recommend using sometimes or solely consolidated routines, exchange exercises (types or sequence), etc.

There are many variables to use - frequency, number of exercises/sets per wkout, types of exercises, excluding isolations all or some or every other wkout, etc.

Adding more compounds to the routine that Mike designed could lead to overtraining. Remember that the reason why to use this routine is that things don't work when using routine with isolation exercises = less exercises, more time to recover, less overlap
If you added more compounds, the effect would diminish.

Also, you can't be sure how much rest will be needed until you really feel it. HIT is infrequent and sometimes stress from other areas of life can jump in and influence your recovery ability.

This is my idea when I read your post.
J

This is what I have so far. It's still a work in progress.

Workout 1

Incline bench press 1 x 8
palms-up pulldowns 1 x 10
Deadlifts 1 x 10
weighted sit-ups 1 x 20

Workout 2

press behind neck 1 x 8
* Cable Rear Delt Row 1 x 10
Squats 1 x 12
calf raises 1 x 12

* I'm undecided about this one. I'm not sure if the rear delts get enough work with the press behind neck so I'm looking for an exercise that can target them. I'm also considering the barbell row, yates row and perhaps an isolation exercise.

I'll take around 4 to 5 days rest in between workouts depending on how I feel and I'm going to use a cadence of 3-1-3.

Any advice or input is welcome

Rear delts will be stimulated by pulldown(or chin) and a bit from DL too. BTN Press won't target them.
If you feel not enough stimulation from the 2 exercises I noted, rather exchange pulldowns with Yates Row (to keep the bi stimulation high).
Get lost of the ab exercise, it won't help gain lean.

Merc wrote:So I've been doing Mike Mentzer's ideal [principled] workout routine for 2 months now. I've gained strength and lost 4.5 pounds of fat counting calories but if I've gained any muscle it's not noticeable. I am aware that the average person can only gain 5 pounds of muscle per year but at the same time you hope that maybe you can have gains like some of his best clients have had, or at least just a fraction.

Hi there mate,
this is my take on it:
from my own experience (training myself and a few other people) it's near impossible to gain muscle on a calorie-restricted diet...the laws of thermodynamics apply here...
In saying that, while eating slightly positive calories, I have lost some fat while gaining muscle...I attribute this to a rise in my BMR as my lean mass increased.
So in that repect, I'd concentrate on one at a time...IMO losing fat is harder (I lost 30kg of fat over 2 years), so I'd start with that, then when you're happy with your bodyfat level, have a layoff for a month, then switch to slight positive calories.
Also, personally the Ideal routine was too much for me to recover from while dieting, I went consolidated while trying to lose fat...and minimum 7 days between sessions.
What's your current weight and bodyfat %, and maybe I can make some recommendations depending on your goals...only if you're interested of course.

A good book that may help with your fat loss/muscle gaining goals is "Body By Science" by Doug McGuff.

I have this book and love it. The only thing with that workout you posted is I can't see waiting 17 or so days to do chest/back again. It seems like between all those recovery days, you can have a tendency to add fat to your body. My goal is to stay as ripped as possible and workout intensely at the same time. For insurance, I do an all out intense 6 min. power walk with 30 lbs strapped on at the end of each workout. I take a lot from what Mentzer says and make it my own regarding low reps/sets and all the great principles of HIT. I really like rest pause, pre exhaust, negatives and static holds and make the most of them each workout.

HDHITman wrote:The HD1 split is workout 1: chest/shoulders/triceps  workout 2: Legs/Abs and workout 3: Back/Biceps.  Thats it if you want to full workout from the book let me know.

Daron
The Heavy Duty HITman

Hey! Can you post the full workout?

You can find it online by typing HD1 routine.