Fat burners

Hey Guys, I moved this thread to the general nutrition and diet forum, as it involves much more than just "asking Drew". Feel free to keep the debate flowing! I only ask that you keep it civil (After all, we don't want to appear "dogmatic" now any of us, do we? )

Now here's a fad diet for you Craig: (link) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Not my cuppa tea, but I bet Bill Sahli wouldn't mind too much! (He just might throw a raw steak or two into the mix!)

This is an interesting discussion. I would like to chip in if I may. On the subject of ‘cheat meals’, I think that some of the problem lies in the phrase ‘cheat meal’. It implies that you’re doing something naughty, something that you shouldn’t be doing. I don’t see the problem with having a few beers and an Indian meal or whatever takes your fancy. I’ve done that right throughout my fat loss and continue to do so. Only last weekend I went out with my wife, her aunt and her husband for an Indian meal.

I ended up having quite a few lagers and Guinness's on top of my meat samosas, assorted tandoori, naan and chapati. I enjoy all of the aforementioned and it was a social event during which I had no qualms about consuming these items. I was out to enjoy myself and that I did. However, I didn’t feel THE NEED to go out and have the meal and alcohol. Had we not had the visitors, I’d have been perfectly happy having my usual (and very enjoyable) feeds and no alcohol. Therefore, although I would maybe refer to that as a ‘cheat meal’, if I think about it, it isn’t how I actually view it. It was a social gathering which happened and I just went with the flow. I can go for weeks just eating my usual with zero alcohol and don’t ever get cravings or need such a ‘blow-out’. Moderation and common sense apply when it comes to this type of thing.

Even though I had this night out, it didn’t adversely affect my weight. In fact, I actually lost a little bit when I weighed myself a week later without even trying.

Maybe I don’t feel the need because my normal diet is right. I love what I eat. It’s an enjoyable, satisfying, healthy, balanced, voluminous and nutritious diet geared towards keeping me lean but also towards progression in relation to my training and physique. In other words, the maintenance of good overall health. The combination of this simple common sense approach to diet and HIT has given me the physique I never thought I could ever achieve. That’s all I view it as: simple common sense stuff that anyone can apply. There’s nothing whatsoever that’s special as regards how I’ve gone about doing what I’ve done. I’ve not counted calories, fasted, eaten certain food combinations together, used fat burners or any daft diets or looked for a quick fix. Just a healthy balanced diet in a calorie deficit with regular feeds thought the day.

It is a lifestyle change, it had to be if you are to maintain and improve your health and physique. It has to be sustainable, enjoyable and geared towards achieving your goals. Now, for me, willpower, self denial, self discipline etc doesn’t come into it. The other night my wife sat there eating a Domino's pizza and garlic bread. It didn’t even enter my mind to have any. None of those factors I’ve just mentioned even came into play.

Everyone has it in them to have a lean, strong, healthy and aesthetically pleasing physique. It all stems from the mind. If you want it bad enough you’ll get it and if you’re head is right, after an initial push, it gets easier and easier to the point where what you do diet and training-wise just becomes the norm. Granted, not everyone will be able to achieve a natural 18” arm at 8% body fat, but everyone has the capability to get to 8% body fat and remain there whilst getting stronger and adding some muscle.

From what I’ve seen on TV, read in books and on the internet and from my own experiences, there are no excuses for failing to get lean, just a lack of desire. If the desire is there, that six-pack, if you want one of course, is yours.

Craig has had amazing success in transforming his physique. It makes what I have done pale into insignificance but I know whether or not I had 40, 50, 100 pounds to lose, I would still have eventually got as lean as I am now. If I had more than the 40 or so pounds to lose, it would have taken me longer, that’s all. Lots of folk lose huge amounts of fat but I would suggest that the majority put it all back on again and then some. The true measure of a successful fat loss regime is to turn that regime into a sustainable lifestyle and keep that fat off.

By the way if you’re in the UK, there’s what promises to be a very interesting programme on Channel 4 at 10 pm: ‘The Worlds Fattest Families And Me’ with Mark Dolan.

Admin wrote:Now here's a fad diet for you Craig: (link) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Not my cuppa tea, but I bet Bill Sahli wouldn't mind too much! (He just might throw a raw steak or two into the mix!)

Oh dear.

The best post on there is from marcrph who tells the OP: "I'm pulling for you!" Priceless.

Craig wrote:

Drew Baye wrote:From a recent article in Scientific American, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]:

"In 2008 Stampfer co-authored a study in the New England Journal of Medicine that followed 322 moderately obese individuals for two years as they adopted one of three diets: a low-fat, calorie-restricted diet based on American Heart Association guidelines; a Mediterranean, restricted-calorie diet rich in vegetables and low in red meat; and a low-carbohydrate, nonrestricted-calorie diet. Although the subjects on the low-carb diet ate the most saturated fat, they ended up with the healthiest ratio of HDL to LDL cholesterol and lost twice as much weight as their low-fat-eating counterparts."

The sentence immediately preceding this quote reads:

“Although saturated fat boosts blood levels of “bad” LDL cholesterol, it also increases “good” HDL cholesterol.”

The piece opens thus:

“Eat less saturated fat: that has been the take-home message from the U.S. government for the past 30 years. But while Americans have dutifully reduced the percentage of daily calories from saturated fat since 1970, the obesity rate during that time has more than doubled, diabetes has tripled, and heart disease is still the country’s biggest killer.”

What I want to know is where are all these Americans (and it’s the same situation here in Britain) who have dutifully reduced their saturated fat intake? Sitting in McDonalds, perhaps? KFC, maybe?

Westerners do not eat a low-fat diet. They eat processed foods high in sugar AND fat. Attempting to make an argument for low carb eating on the basis that Americans have become obese by reducing their fat intake is spurious at best.

The nonsense continues: “Processed carbohydrates, which many Americans eat today in place of fat, “

Americans eat processed carbs IN PLACE of fat? The Colonel must be turning in his grave, Drew. America did not get fat by eating carbs instead of fat now did it?

“In March the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition published a meta-analysis—which combines data from several studies—that compared the reported daily food intake of nearly 350,000 people against their risk of developing cardiovascular disease over a period of five to 23 years.”

Reported daily food intake? Have you ever tried to get anyone to tell you what they eat for one day let alone FIVE YEARS? It’s like asking a woman her dress size.

In fact, I’d like to meet someone - anyone - who has adhered to a low carb diet for two years. BTW, Drew, what do you eat on your cheat days?

Drew Baye wrote: “If you reduce saturated fat and replace it with high glycemic-index carbohydrates, you may not only not get benefits—you might actually produce harm,”

I don’t doubt this statement. But who is promoting the consumption of high glycemic-index carbohydrates? I certainly am not.

Drew Baye wrote:Three-site skinfold, bioelectrical impedance analysis, and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] all put me at about 3 to 4%. Did that using the Zone and SuperSlow. Leaning down to around that level again, but this time I'll be around 20 lbs heavier.

Yes, you are very lean in that photo, Drew. No doubt about it. What happened?

How come you didn’t keep the fat off?

And why, if the Zone diet and SuperSlow where so effective, are you not using those methods now?

This is the point I am making. Even if low carb eating did have greater fat loss and health benefits than other diets, is it something you can maintain for life? Will you still be eating low carb this time next year, or the year after that? Will you be lean for life?

Nicely put.

More points to think about. Americans (and the British no doubt) are eating twice the amount of protein generally recommended. This intake does NOTHING to prevent normal muscular atrophy with age. It's doesn't make the slightest difference to body composition in and of itself. With exercise, it's quite simple - you only NEED so much additional protein to meet your requirements for new growth and repair. Protein CANNOT save your muscles! Why? Because muscle is expensive to keep and protein alone can't afford the payments.

How do you gain muscle without the proper stimulus? Without an abundance of carbohydrates, you will be in no fit state to train hard – mentally nor physically. This is clearly the first priority. Refined carbohydrates are best avoided – unless you like hunger. For satisfaction, add a little fat.

When the latest incarnation of what is essentially the Atkins diet shows up, it shouldn't go unchecked. Look up the fad diets - Atkins will be at the top of the list. From bad breath to kidney stones, tiredness to osteoporosis, the list is long and unpleasant. It should be addressed.

Craig wrote:

Admin wrote:Now here's a fad diet for you Craig: (link) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Not my cuppa tea, but I bet Bill Sahli wouldn't mind too much! (He just might throw a raw steak or two into the mix!)

Oh dear.

The best post on there is from marcrph who tells the OP: "I'm pulling for you!" Priceless.

I like the one where they talk about cooking tapeworms

What my grocery cart usually looks like

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Good stuff....you guys are ALL eating good, nutritional food....we're more together on this stuff than apart.

On a side note; it amazes me how easily nuts can throw your diet off if you are not careful. Drew, my wife inhales those pistachios...but the calorie count can be off the charts! I remember reading on Glynn's "menu" once that he'll just have a "lid full" of nuts (almonds I think) which I thought was a pretty neat way of keeping the consumption in check!

But Drew, where are the eggs?!?!?!

Still do the lid thing with the nuts Steve but they just cover the bottom of the lid, not fill it. I just throw them into my oatmeal and protein powder or into my pancakes. They contain essential stuff but due to the high calories, I exercise portion control. Same with the oatmeal, pasta. Well, everything really.

I've got about 40 eggs in my fridge just now.

Took me a bit to read through it all but I got the tail end...

Like in high intensity training... it boils down to genetics.

If you work with your genetics, that is all that is required. I just wrote an article for my newsletter about this specifically and YES LOL...

Just throw me a raw steak and some raw eggs and yes.. I am good to go. It is actually the mainstay of my diet, along with adding some vegetables and fruit and some raw fish. I like wild Salmon!

I add wine usually to meals that are not a drink like eggs blended... or a beer if I choose.

I actually eat this way year round and really don't have to worry about dieting per se... however, just recently I have gone almost totally raw, which has helped with some added loss of bodyfat without trying.

On training days and usually the night before I will carb load on some pasta or baked potato, sweet potato or whatever I would like or prefer but that is mainly to help load the muscle for the workout, of course I focus a bit more on water at that time also. I also do so on my training day and don't usually count calories but they are super high on this day especially after a workout.

What I have found in eating this way is that my energy is very high and almost never get hungry. I use no supplements at all since going totally raw and find that I don't need any. A couple of nagging injuries miraculously disappeared also, which made me quite happy. This is not uncommon, I have one client that arm wrestled with a rash for years and when he went raw, it disappeared along with about 15 pounds of bodyfat. All while consuming raw milk, raw eggs, raw beef, raw fish and raw honey, along with raw fruits and vegetables.

Well, there you go.

Keep it simple, work with your genetics and it is all it takes.

Best regards,
Bill

PS I always will answer direct questions to me but I am not always able to do an extended chat, due to business commitments. So if you are going to ask me a direct question, please do so on my forum... or in the Q&A section here...

PSS Drew, can't wait for your success with your new book! I am absolutely wishing you the very best. Let me know if there is any way I can help you!
Blessings, Bill

thebiggfella wrote:Only last weekend I went out with my wife, her aunt and her husband for an Indian meal.

Me too. Only not with your wife, your aunt, or her husband

The problem I have with "cheating" is more to do with labelling and the deprivation and control of food it encourages than with eating the occasional high calorie meal.

Diets that have a built in “cheat day” when you can “eat anything you want” are about control and deprivation. Deprivation and control of food create overeating. I hear it all the time: "I've been bad (guilty as charged) today so I might as well go mad (relinquish control) and start again tomorrow". People tell me I’m “ever so good” because I don’t have a cake or pudding. Diets encourage this kind of thinking and it’s unhealthy.

When the dieter fails - and 99.5% of dieters fail - they blame themselves and not the diet (deprivation and control of food) for their failure. This is how the diet industry likes it.

thebiggfella wrote: Even though I had this night out, it didn’t adversely affect my weight. In fact, I actually lost a little bit when I weighed myself a week later without even trying.

Absolutely, and this mirrors my own experiences. One big meal won’t make anyone fat.

I have the occasional curry and beer but I don’t consider it cheating, I consider it part of a healthy lifestyle. I don’t live on it, that’s how I got fat, but I enjoy it occasionally and I don’t feel guilty afterwards.

thebiggfella wrote:It is a lifestyle change, it had to be if you are to maintain and improve your health and physique. It has to be sustainable, enjoyable and geared towards achieving your goals. Now, for me, willpower, self denial, self discipline etc doesn’t come into it. The other night my wife sat there eating a Domino's pizza and garlic bread. It didn’t even enter my mind to have any. None of those factors I’ve just mentioned even came into play.

I know exactly what you mean.

thebiggfella wrote: Everyone has it in them to have a lean, strong, healthy and aesthetically pleasing physique. It all stems from the mind.

I believe that mental attitude is the most important aspect. I went for years with the wrong head on and it wasn’t until I became excited about losing weight that I actually did it. I truly didn’t realise just what I was capable of until I put my mind to it and decided to change.

I can honestly say that I have never experienced life the way I have since that moment. I have never felt more alive.

thebiggfella wrote:
The true measure of a successful fat loss regime is to turn that regime into a sustainable lifestyle and keep that fat off.

This is what really matters.

thebiggfella wrote: By the way if you’re in the UK, there’s what promises to be a very interesting programme on Channel 4 at 10 pm: ‘The Worlds Fattest Families And Me’ with Mark Dolan.

I’ll tune in tonight.

I think with regards to getting big i.e. building muscle or slimming down i.e. losing fat you can only go as far as is sustainable long term.

I have, at some stage weighed about 15 pounds more than I do now. The reason I don't still weigh that much is because of the level of dietary discipline required to maintain that amount of extra muscle on my frame.

I was having to eat so many calories per day (5000) that eating became a chore and almost all the pleasure was removed from it. The preparation time and the cleanup time as well as the eating time meant that I had little time left to do much else. I'd become worried if I went out for the day and was unable to eat sufficient calories at timed intervals. I couldn't live like that long term hence I've had to reduce my expectations with regards to how muscular I can get.

Likewise, it's the same with fat loss. You will only be as lean as you can stand to maintain in the long term from a psychological standpoint as well as a physiological one. There's a reason bodybuilders don't maintain contest shape all year round. That's why I think it's unfair to use Drew's mid 90s contest physique as an example of something that he didn't manage to maintain.

At 3-4% bodyfat, you're right at one of the extreme ends of the leanness scale. Had Drew fattened back up to 8%, which is about where Glynn is (from what I remember) then he may well have been able to maintain that more easily in the long run. I would suggest that Drew's combination of Superslow and Zone dieting, whilst perhaps not ideal, was not ineffective, as he did indeed get down to low single digit bodyfat, with a single short workout per week and no cardio. As Craig alluded to, to get and stay lean the only thing that you really need is DESIRE. Once the desire goes, it doesn't matter about anything else.

For some people, Glynn's level of leanness would be a condition that they could only hold for a matter of days or weeks and then they'd fatten up to whatever level they can maintain in the long run. For some people however, like Glynn himself, it is a level of leanness that can be maintain in the long run, because he has the desire to to do so, and it's not so lean that it's medically unsafe, and he's not using a ridiculous amount of health damaging drugs to help him stay that lean.

I think the low carb brigade are fine but maybe take things too far at times. Some of the posts I have read in the past on other forums make me wonder why I don't start smoking 30 cigarettes a day, as by the sounds of things, that would be less of a cause for concern than eating a bit of rice, pasta or bread. Some of them make it sound like carbs are literally toxic and will swiftly kill you should you ingest some.

Two really simple and wonderfully effective things that get left in the gutter by the side road as this argument speed along are:

Calorie Density
Regardless of what a food is, protein, carb or fat, if it's very dense in calories i.e. has a lot of calories per a given weight then you should either reduce the amount of it that you eat, east it very infrequently like Craig and Glynn with their curry and beer "cheat meal",or just eliminate it altogether. Just being aware of calorie density can have a massive impact on how some people eat.

Portion Size
This isn't rocket science and I won't say any more other than this. Even healthy foods can make you fat if you eat too much of them.

These 2 BASIC principles have been the driving force behind the continued success of a close friend of mine. 9 weeks ago he weighed 220 pounds at a height of 5' 7". Yesterday he weighed 204 pounds. His target is 189 by Christmas, and then 180 by March next year. He may well beat those deadlines.

He is eating what he ate when he was fat. Sure he's dropped the obvious things like Coca Cola, Krispy Kreme Donuts and Pizza and replaced it with salads, fruit and water, but the 2 things I have hammered home are calorie density and portion size.

He counts his calories and weighs and measures his food, aiming for 1600-1800 calories per day but if in my capacity as his "diet coach", if I can call myself that, had I confused him with all the anti carb/glycemic waffle in this thread he probably wouldn't have got anywhere because he'd be far more worried and less educated than he is now.

As it is, he's going great and training HIT style on a very basic routine of compound movements.

His desire and motivation are increasing all the time.

Craig, we're on the same page, probably the same line, when it comes to fat loss and keeping it off. The similarities in our approach to it and also our experiences, are quite uncanny.

Craig wrote:
I’ll tune in tonight.

Mutton flaps for tea tomorrow night then?

thebiggfella wrote:

Mutton flaps for tea tomorrow night then?

Followed by ice cream sandwich and Fanta bread. Lovely

Craig wrote:

thebiggfella wrote:

Mutton flaps for tea tomorrow night then?

Followed by ice cream sandwich and Fanta bread. Lovely

I have to say that I'm not very well versed in the "finer" parts of English cuisine, but those all sound quite...ahem... strange to me.

Right up there with cottage cheese sandwiches!

Ciccio wrote:

Craig wrote:

thebiggfella wrote:

Mutton flaps for tea tomorrow night then?

Followed by ice cream sandwich and Fanta bread. Lovely

I have to say that I'm not very well versed in the "finer" parts of English cuisine, but those all sound quite...ahem... strange to me.

Hi Franco. The delicacies mentioned above are from Tonga. The presenter travelled the world looking for fat families and apparently, Tonga has the fattest population. No wonder if they scoff 'delights' like that!

Mind you, you can find deep fried Mars Bars in batter in Scottish fish and chip shops!

As for the cottage cheese sandwiches, I think that's just a coomo thing.

Now, that cottage cheese sandwich is NOT strange to me!
In Germany it's not too uncommon to have bread with cottage cheese (the creamy smooth version) and marmelade, like substituting the butter for it. My son particularly likes it for breakfast.
And then there's the italian version with riccotta (like cottage cheese but made from whey) and fresh white bread. You ought to try it!

Drew Baye wrote:For example, orlistat, which is sold under the name Alli, made no significant difference in fat loss in clinical trials, even at amounts 6 times the recommended dose (which probably had subjects shitting themselves nonstop).

Do you have the reference for this/these trials?